Lynsey McAnally (00:02):

Angus At Work, a podcast for the profit-minded cattleman. Brought to you by the Angus Beef Bulletin, we have news and information on health, nutrition, marketing, genetics and management. So let’s get to work, shall we?

Hello and welcome back to Angus At Work! There isn’t a cattleman alive who would argue against a strong relationship with their local veterinarian. While rural vets often grace our barns and working pens at odd hours, the optimum time to build a relationship and herd success plan probably isn’t at 3 a.m. while wrapping up a c-section. I’m Lynsey McAnally, and on today’s episode we invite you to take a seat and join the conversation as our host Shauna Hermel chats with Randall Spare, president and veterinarian at Ashland Veterinary Center, regarding his experience with herd health consultation, problem-solving with producers and how cattlemen play an important role in telling the story of beef. So, let’s dive in!

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Shauna Hermel (01:49):

Hello, this is Shauna Hermel. Thank you for joining us today on this episode of Angus At Work. We're here today talking with Randall Spare with the Ashland Veterinary Center in Ashland, Kansas. Randall, how are things going?

Randall Spare (02:05):

Shauna, we’ve had a great summer, and it’s rained in Ashland, Kansas. So much of how we feel about ourselves sometimes depends on moisture! But even though we live in a time period where there’s some volatile markets, things are going real well for us, and our producers have a direction to go. As far as my job, we’ve been busy in June, July and August ultrasounding a lot of heifers that we’ve AI’ed (artificially inseminated). We’ve enjoyed that opportunity to interact with people.

Shauna Hermel (02:35):

Excellent. I had a chance to listen to you at the Feeding Quality Forum in Dodge City, Kansas, here in August and you spoke a little bit on the heifer replacements and some positivity. Dan Basse spoke earlier and was talking about hoping that people would start thinking about maybe rebuilding the cow herd and start building up numbers and questioning whether we could. You provided some insight on how we could replace heifers and start building that herd.

Randall Spare (03:08):

I think that’s going to be a challenge this year, this time around. As we consider several things involved in that equation, it has to do with what’s the price that we can sell these heifers for as feeder heifers, as large feeder heifers. And also there’s an increased feeding capacity, so there’s more competition for those heifers even when producers can get $2,000 for an 800-lb. heifer. They’re probably not as willing to put her in the herd. Now, that’s somewhat shortsighted in the thought process, but when you have a commodity heifer, I think that’s what people will do.

The opportunities today when we genomically measure heifers and we know exactly what’s underneath that hide are tremendous. And I see those producers that have made directional changes in their cow herd, and they use known quality genetics and EPDs (expected progeny differences) on their bulls, and they’ve been up for a number of years, they’re more willing to keep all their heifers because remember, Shauna, there is a difference between what a heifer and steer will sell for at weaning time. And oftentimes that could be as much as $100 to $150 back. So that basis, if you will, when we retain our heifers and we’ve genomically measured those, we can often sell those for a lot greater than steer price. So the opportunities are unlimited when people know what’s underneath the hide. And they’ve done that through genomically measuring their cattle.

Shauna Hermel (04:46):

You gave a couple examples of some herds that have made some really incredible changes within their management scheme to add value. Can you go through that? That first herd had like 800 head and they started out with maybe not the high-quality focus.

Randall Spare (05:08):

So even as I talked in that presentation, that particular cow herd was a Hereford cow herd. And I don’t want to be critical of those. That’s just where they were at that time. And they were challenged with the bulls that they were using were only described phenotypically, those bulls that they used in their heifers. So they were using “low-birth-weight” Angus bulls. Well, that’s not a very quantitative description. In that first year, they had a number of dystocias. I think out of 130, they probably told pulled 26 to 30 calves.

Shauna Hermel (05:47):

Not as easy-calving as they expected.

Randall Spare (05:49):

That’s right. And so then I also probably performed at least 10 cesareans for them. And yeah, that’s costly, but the real cost isn’t the cesarean, but it’s the labor involved to check those cattle, the labor involved to feed those cattle because they were in a drylot situation. And then we have the fact that actually today, if we were in that situation, I believe that that’s almost an animal welfare issue. If we use the wrong bulls to breed our heifers and we have calving difficulty, shame on us. The information’s out there to pick the right bulls. So that herd has made tremendous changes.

Now the other thing, remember, that herd would sell their calves at weaning time. They’d load ’em on the truck and they’d take the price that was given to them that day. They were price takers. They were dependent on when they could get their help there to wean those calves and put ’em on a truck and haul ’em to the sale, and they had to work around Thursday was a sale. So they had to work around that.

So they were confined by the fact that those animals weren’t genetically defined. They sold well because there was a large group and a lot of people wanted those kinds of cattle. But today, what I see that particular ranch doing, has made tremendous leaps and there’s a lot less anxiety in there as they’ve opened up the possibilities just because they’ve used bulls that move them directionally in the direction they want to go, and the product they have to sell is in demand.

Currently they sell their steers off the ranch weaned 60 days, and the buyer gives them $5 a hundredweight over the Kansas weighted average. So they don’t have to sort the cattle. They don’t get hauled. They don’t have to worry about shrink. They don’t have to worry about short ears. All of them go. And so that ranch has mitigated price risk by their genetic choices.

Shauna Hermel (07:58):

Describe some of the relationship that you have to have with that producer to be able to maybe affect that kind of change in a program and go from doing cesareans for somebody to actually watching them maybe top the market.

Randall Spare (08:15):

So it is always exciting and it actually makes me somewhat emotional because as a veterinarian, our training is in which IBR (infectious bovine rhinotracheitis) vaccine to use or what lepto does or what anaplasmosis does. And that’s important. But I think because we’re sitting side by side with somebody, and when we get done preg-checking cows or fertility-testing bulls, we can have that discussion and we can point them in a direction by not telling ’em what to do, but ask them questions: What are your goals? And I don’t often say, do you want to make more money? But I want to say, do you want to create more demand, or do you want two people to bid on your cattle? And so that relationship is so important, and I’ve practiced for nearly 40 years. And because of that, I realize the opportunity that we have to help people give hope to their operations and to move them in a positive direction.

Shauna Hermel (09:15):

And those positive vibes are something that we’re all looking for these days, isn’t it?

Randall Spare (09:19):

Yeah, that’s right. And Shauna, it doesn’t have to be an 800-cow ranch. I can think of two or three 70-cow ranches or groups of cattle herds that we’ve seen that same directional change, and they’re excited about what they’re doing.

Shauna Hermel (09:37):

So what kind of an economic change does going from monitoring your herd and buying those bulls that you described that were a predictably calving ease bulls, but also had the yearling weight, also had marbling, also had some of those things that bring you a premium on the marketplace today. Kind of describe, go through that.

Randall Spare (10:02):

So if we think about, so that gentleman said when I was doing those 10 cesareans, he said, well, I can’t afford a good calving-ease bull. And I’m thinking, I think you could with what you’re paying for — not only the cost of the cesarean, but the loss of productivity. And it’s actually just simple math. It’s a math equation. Okay, here’s what it’s cost you, what it’s cost you in labor. Here’s what it’s cost you in death loss. And we can effect change by using these bulls. Now, did we buy the best bulls for him? So I actually have an opportunity to go find the bulls that he needs and then teach him how to use EPDs or explain to him what EPDs mean. And then pretty soon they’re doing their own purchasing. And what it is, is really holding their hand until they feel comfortable with the nomenclature — they feel comfortable with the risk.

And then once they move from actually their own cattle and see what they can do, they’ll actually own those cattle longer. And they might take their open heifers that didn’t conceive, and they might own those through a feedlot phase. And then once they experience that and know that it is not painful and that there’s no boogeyman out there, then they’re a lot more likely to make those changes in their bull selection. For instance, this year we could AI set up 100 head of heifers with semen synchronization and arm service for say, $6,000. You couldn’t buy a good heifer bull, one good heifer bull for $6,000. And at the same time, so if we got 50% bread on a time-breeding program for $6,000, look at the advantage that we made.

So not only do we have to have a relationship with them, but we have to understand the value equation, too. And I think that’s something unique and I, I use these opportunities to train young veterinary students that ride with us to get them to think about value. We have to think about value every day. And I don’t know why I think value all the time, but what’s this shot worth? What’s it do for us? What’s it increase their profitability? And if I’m not thinking about value, I’m negligent. I’m not doing my job.

Shauna Hermel (12:25):

You become a partner as you’re giving them the tools to empower them to make their own decisions.

Randall Spare (12:33):

Absolutely.

Shauna Hermel (12:33):

A cheerleader. Yes. So what's the next step? We go through and we pick a better level of bulls and we get calves out of that calf crop. What’s the next step for the producer and increasing the value in the herd and the return on investment?

Randall Spare (12:53):

So if we think about the investments that we put into a cow herd, there’s four investments that I think of that come to my mind, and I simplified it for this, is that they are: We make investments of genetics. We make investments of nutrition and herd health and then temperament, and that’s through facilities and picking bulls that are from a docile background or docile EPD. Once we do those, those are investments that we make before they even are conceived. So if we want to go further and get a more robust return on those investments, we need to own those cattle longer. So it might be owning those steers clear to harvest time. It might mean actually being able to sell fat animals to a farm-to-table. It might mean that we take those heifers and we breed all the heifers and we keep ’em all and we sell ’em mature cows. The opportunities are unlimited in what we can do.

Shauna Hermel (13:58):

One of the examples that you used at the Feeding Quality Forum talked about the value of heifers at different stages. And I think you were getting to the point that not to be scared to save too many heifers because there’s value throughout the line and at 850 pounds as bred heifer.

Randall Spare (14:19):

So Shauna, that’s a good question, and it’s an easy question. It’s just a math equation. And so oftentimes, historically people have told us, well, just keep 15% of the heifers that you need to replace your cow herd. But if we really think about that and we’ve made investments in those areas of genetics and nutrition and herd health, well then they all have value. Aren’t all of them good? So let’s breed ’em all. And so if we think about that time that we’d sell March 15 and we pick that date, well then we look at the value of those cattle and let’s say they weighed 900 pounds at that time coming off of wheat pasture in southern Kansas. So this year, for example, that animal was worth about $1,900 as a fat animal or as a feeder animal. So we bred all those cattle and in that example that I used, there was 82 head of heifers and we bred ’em all, and I think we bred on ’em for two cycles, an AI and two bull cycles.

So 45 days. So we have 19 open animals, heifers. So when we preg-checked them 30 days after we pulled the bull, which had been June 30, those animals had gone from 850 pounds to 1,050 pounds in that time period. That’s our resources, using our feed. So we used no manufactured feed and we increased their value. So we used our own resources to increase value automatically. If we would’ve sold them only what we picked, we would’ve actually had to have a longer breeding season to get the number of heifers we want. My contention is let’s breed ’em all. And if we get more bread heifers than we need, we can always sell ’em to cows or sell bred heifers. But if we’re genomically measured and we know exactly when they’re bred, we’ve reproductively evaluated them according to pregnancy, then I think that we have more choices.

So that animal was worth $2,200 when I preg-checked her. So when we feed her out, and at that time the market, we pretty well could have been guaranteed about $3,000 because of her genetic merit. I know that she would’ve fed like a steer. Her cost to gain would’ve been similar to a steer because that’s always what happens. And the premium that we would’ve paid would’ve been 12 to 13, $14 above the market. So at that time, the market was $1.90, and I think that we would’ve received well over $2 a pound. So if the animal would weigh 1,500 pounds when we sold her at $2 a pound, that would’ve made it worth well over $3,000. We subtract the cost of feed, which would’ve been about $1 a pound gain. So we had a heifer net value of $2,500. So big picture is in March the 15th, she had a value of $1,900, and using our own resources we’re going to net $2,500. Isn’t that pretty cool?

Shauna Hermel (17:34):

That is cool. And that’s backing her up with the genetics of the bulls that you’re buying. And then also how hard or how resistant are commercial cattlemen to maybe getting a genomic test for their females? Is that a learning opportunity?

Randall Spare (17:51):

So that’s a challenge at times, but [not so much now] because we have momentum and being able to do that and show ’em examples and show ’em examples of how people have made money by doing that. You bet those people that have made those genetic advantages.

But let me tell you about a perceived negative story. I had a young family come to me and say they kept two little Angus bulls that were pretty. And they genomically tested them, and I looked at ’em and they weren’t very good and thinking, okay, so how do I communicate that to ’em? And I said, so how do you market your cattle? Well, we sell ’em off wheat pasture as feeder steers. So I looked at their genomic tests and they were in the bottom 25% for growth. And I said, so what this tells me, and you did a tremendous job at testing those animals and wanting to know. And so I said, we need to find some different bulls. What are your goals when you buy a bull? So even just asking those questions in a way that doesn’t put ’em down, but I want them to learn, and I want them to have the best opportunity to succeed.

Shauna Hermel (19:08):

As far as the seedstock producer who is working with those commercial customers that can help them identify the right bulls to work with that commercial herd too, wouldn’t it?

Randall Spare (19:19):

Absolutely. And I think as a seedstock producer, one of the most important things you can do is to ask people, what are your goals? What do you want to accomplish? Maybe people don’t have the equity to keep ’em beyond weaning time. Somebody’s going to feed the cattle though. And if we can create demand and two people bidding on them, that’s really good. So as seedstock producers, I think understanding our clients and helping them make as much money as we can with return off their investment.

Shauna Hermel (19:52):

You’re located out here in western Kansas and in kind of in feedlot country. Kind of describe the difference in the perspective of feedlots when they’re looking at some of those calves and how genetics is playing into that.

Randall Spare (20:08):

So Shauna, I think there’s tremendous opportunity, even in the last 10 years, I’ve seen progress by feedyard owners starting to understand genetics a little bit, but they would behoove themselves to really start to understand the nomenclature of EPDs and to know what they mean, because feeding cattle has a lot to do with what’s underneath the hide. There was a thought process that I can feed grade into them, I can make them grade Prime if I feed them long enough. Well, today they’re learning that it’s now the product they start with. And so I think that feedyards have an opportunity to learn a lot, and they’ve learned a lot, but they can also get a little better.

Shauna Hermel (20:58):

Which of those EPDs and dollar values are most important and most critical in that discovery process?

Randall Spare (21:06):

So if I was a feedyard owner and I was in charge of procurement and somebody said, Hey, would you be interested in my cattle? I’d ask one question, what’s the average dollar beef ($B) of your bulls? Because if we think about the definition of dollar beef, it’s postweaning merit that has to do with gain feed efficiency, the cost of gain and the genetic traits of the carcass, that’s all boiled down to dollar beef. So let’s say we have a bull with a dollar beef of 180 and a bull with dollar beef at 280, that means there’s $100 difference in those two bulls. And, Shauna, if we don’t ask those questions, we’re missing the mark. If we’re going to buy that 180, we need to pay less for it. That’s what it’s telling us, because it’s not going to have the opportunity to succeed like that dollar beef at 280. And that has nothing to do with what cows are left in the pasture. One question I would ask, what’s the dollar beef?

The idea of we have an opportunity to be influencers, and we have to understand that really we have ... to harvest, but we have a product to sell. Our consumers have told us what they want in that product, and we need to listen to that. And sometimes as cow-calf producers, we are so far away from the consumer that we forget that in our day-to-day management practices. And I have a saying in my head that I want to help ranchers make every day a good day in the life of every calf on the ranch. Because if we can do that, then the consumer’s a lot more likely to enjoy our product. And we have a wholesome story to tell, Shauna. People don't care where their celery comes from, but they want to know the story of our beef. I believe that the genetic choices we make are an animal-welfare choice. I believe they are a health choice. We can influence health by what’s the EPDs of our bull. We know that those animals that have more dystocia have less colostral intake, less colostral absorption. And if we do that, we’re more likely to have increased health events in that life. So I think that we have to understand it’s not just about the money we make, the product we offer, but the process we get there. We have a great story to tell.

Shauna Hermel (23:49):

And it also makes it more enjoyable for the producers who are working with those cattle — and their veterinarian.

Randall Spare (23:55):

Absolutely. You know what? One of my favorite things is still to do a cesarean on a live cow with a live calf inside. There’s nothing better than that to save life, but I’ve done enough. But you know what? I enjoy it because I’m helping that person that’s come to me with a problem

Shauna Hermel (24:15):

And solving that problem is wonderful. I think we all enjoy solving problems for people, and especially if we can help our neighbors out. And I know you talked a lot about the relationships and all that you have with your customers and building how important that is to you. What surprised you even go up to Cherry County, Nebraska, with some clients?

Randall Spare (24:39):

That's all by phone.

Shauna Hermel (24:40):

Okay.

Randall Spare (24:42):

I've done that by phone. I've been up there one time to go to Nebraska to do that, and it was a very enjoyable trip, but mostly converse by phone and help connect the dots. That’s one of my jobs is not part of my job, but that’s one of the opportunities I have, is to find those places to connect connect the dots to help people get the most out of their genetic choices, helping them find that feedyard that will feed those to the nth degree, helping them find that feedyard that will take good care of them, helping them to find bulls that will be successful for them.

Shauna Hermel (25:17):

Wonderful. Well, thank you for joining us today here on Angus at Work, and appreciate you taking time to visit with us. One of the things we like to do as we wrap up the program is to have you focus on maybe a positive thing, whether that be professional or personal, that’s happened to you recently.

Randall Spare (25:38):

This year my wife and I celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary [with a] trip to a trip to France, to Normandy Beach, and it was a BTE — best trip ever — with my bride, and I got to enjoy that. And we also celebrate the fact that we will, by March we’ll have 19 grandkids. So we’re thankful for our family and that’s why it energizes me to help others.

Shauna Hermel (26:03):

That is amazing. Congratulations on 40 years and a huge family!

Lynsey McAnally (26:16):

Listeners, for more information on making Angus work for you, check out the Angus Beef Bulletin and the Angus Beef Bulletin EXTRA. You can subscribe to both publications in the show notes. If you have questions or comments, let us know at abbeditorial@angus.org, and we would appreciate it if you would leave us a review on Apple Podcast and share this episode with any other profit-minded cattlemen. Thanks for listening. This has been Angus At Work!